GoldCoin Talk

Main Category => Technical Discussion => Topic started by: sizzflair on March 24, 2014, 10:44:04 AM

Title: GLD to improvise against ASIC
Post by: sizzflair on March 24, 2014, 10:44:04 AM
We all know it's coming for scrypt based coins. Well vertcoin, which has been shooting up to the moon, is the first coin to be anti-asic scrypt based coin. I think this may help GLD gain ground again by being unique out of all these altcoins.

We have to jump on this now until others do. I know the developers are busy with the new client, but while you're at it this may be worth looking into!
Title: Re: GLD to improvise against ASIC
Post by: dustint on March 24, 2014, 11:41:02 AM
dont quote me on this but i think the new client will be asic resistant.  An ASIC will only find 5 or 6 goldcoin blocks per 10 min. and by that time the block reward will have decreased.  With a multi-threaded client i think timers can be set to ensure blocks keep rolling in on a 2 minute average no matter what the diff. and hashrate is at.  So if a multipool or ASIC jumps on they will receive a lot of orphan blocks and when they are done blocks should still keep rolling in on a 2 minute average.  Many coins are going to fall hard due to difficulty becoming locked really high.  Scrypt coins that survive this should do very well.  Maybe microguy or akumaburn can confirm this.
Title: Re: GLD to improvise against ASIC
Post by: MicroGuy on March 24, 2014, 05:40:16 PM
Akumaburn is in the process of unpacking after a move, so I asked him about his via Skype. Here is his reply:

"ASICs will have to mine for a long time before affecting the difficulty for appreciable values. Our block acceptance is more of a lottery than who has the largest hashpower initally.. only after a long period of sustained mining do users with large amounts of hashpower begin to feel their advantage."
Title: Re: GLD to improvise against ASIC
Post by: sizzflair on March 24, 2014, 10:23:30 PM
Thanks for the responses...

How long is a "long time?"

We really have to get the word out of the development and get more people over to GLD once the asics roll out and people begin to go elsewhere (Scrypt-N)

Here's a list I found on vertcoin forum with current asic resistant coins: http://vertcoinforum.com/index.php?topic=238.0
Title: Re: GLD to improvise against ASIC
Post by: MicroGuy on March 24, 2014, 10:58:26 PM
Thanks for the responses...

How long is a "long time?"

We really have to get the word out of the development and get more people over to GLD once the asics roll out and people begin to go elsewhere (Scrypt-N)

Here's a list I found on vertcoin forum with current asic resistant coins: http://vertcoinforum.com/index.php?topic=238.0

I'm not sure that ASIC technology is fundamentally a "bad thing".

It is a tool, an advancement, and perhaps simply part of the natural evolution of a blockchain.
Title: Re: GLD to improvise against ASIC
Post by: sizzflair on March 25, 2014, 08:52:01 AM
Thanks for the responses...

How long is a "long time?"

We really have to get the word out of the development and get more people over to GLD once the asics roll out and people begin to go elsewhere (Scrypt-N)

Here's a list I found on vertcoin forum with current asic resistant coins: http://vertcoinforum.com/index.php?topic=238.0

I'm not sure that ASIC technology is fundamentally a "bad thing".

It is a tool, an advancement, and perhaps simply part of the natural evolution of a blockchain.

It is not a bad thing, except...

currently GoldCoin's community is declining in my opinion and the amount of mining in a decline as well judging by the total hash rate.  What scrypt-n (or any asic resistant coin) can bring to the table are those regular miners without asic will eventually carry over and start mining these altcoins including GLD.  More people mining can lead to a larger community and potentially an increase in the coin's value.  I believe if people out there are aware that we are asic resistant, they will look into mining GLD once asics roll into the top coins on the market.

I think we are all fully aware that GLD is not doing so hot mostly because the community is small and that not many people are aware of what GLD can be in the future.  We really need a spot light over GLD in order for it to come out ahead of the competition.  While the anticipation of the upcoming client update is something that may help us, it's not going to help at all if no one knows or cares about it.

To summarize, by promoting GLD with its 51% attack and its asic resistant nature, we can bring in more miners from other coins and build a bigger community => increase in GLD's desirability and value
Title: Re: GLD to improvise against ASIC
Post by: Alpha on March 25, 2014, 09:32:48 AM
Nice post Sizzfair. I think your observations are spot on. (with my opinion anyway)  It's been a pretty obvious decline in the community. We have almost 975 members signed up and there are maybe what, 10-15 active?
The Dogecoin guy in the video from the other day, came right out and said the don't offer much over Bitcoin, they are just "happy".  Marketing and good community,  i don't think we can claim that we excel in either at the moment.
Sizzflair just may be right about how we can use ASIC to our advantage. We just need to make the push to get gold in the hands of the people. Not just sit back and hope they find there way here
Title: Re: GLD to improvise against ASIC
Post by: MicroGuy on March 25, 2014, 09:33:31 AM
These are excellent points! I'll pass these along to akumaburn and get his input.

One of the problems with working to attract strictly miners is the fact that they typically (not always) mine and sell. This can put severe downward pressure on the market price. Whereas if the marketing efforts focus on the consumer side you're attracting investor/buyers.
Title: Re: GLD to improvise against ASIC
Post by: sizzflair on March 25, 2014, 11:58:46 AM
These are excellent points! I'll pass these along to akumaburn and get his input.

One of the problems with working to attract strictly miners is the fact that they typically (not always) mine and sell. This can put severe downward pressure on the market price. Whereas if the marketing efforts focus on the consumer side you're attracting investor/buyers.

Thanks! I know all I can really do is mining and being active in the community, so I'm really relying on the devs to make things spark :) I try to get the word out,  but there are so many coins out there that I can't really justify or back up why I'm choosing GLD when there's no set "goal" that we are trying to achieve in the future.  We need a vision of what and how GLD will play down the road and strive towards it. Right now,  there's no vision or a mission statement for these coins. Like it was mentioned before, Doge was successful by being "happy." So I know GLD can achieve the same kind of success if we worked towards it.

While miners may bring down the value by selling GLD, it would help exponentially when that desirability for GLD is on the rise so more can purchase GLD... we just have to get it there!
Title: Re: GLD to improvise against ASIC
Post by: MicroGuy on March 25, 2014, 12:09:02 PM
Thank you for your comments. This is some excellent food for thought.  :)

Just one correction. We do have a goal, and that's to become the #1 digital currency in the World. So it's not about whether we have a goal or not, but rather how do we all work together to achieve that goal.

Ultimately, success will come from the community coming together to create a network effect: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_effect
Title: Re: GLD to improvise against ASIC
Post by: Viscis on March 25, 2014, 12:14:44 PM
If we have a goal then we should break it down into steps on how to achieve that goal. What are the major "tasks" that need to be accomplished in order to achieve our goal.
Title: Re: GLD to improvise against ASIC
Post by: sizzflair on March 25, 2014, 12:33:24 PM
Thank you for your comments. This is some excellent food for thought.  :)

Just one correction. We do have a goal, and that's to become the #1 digital currency in the World. So it's not about whether we have a goal or not, but rather how do we all work together to achieve that goal.

Ultimately, success will come from the community coming together to create a network effect: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_effect

#1 digital currency is too big of a goal. We need to from the bottom and look for more specific goals... for instance our goal being the currency backed by physical gold or being backed by _________ or being the first for _________.
Title: Re: GLD to improvise against ASIC
Post by: MicroGuy on March 25, 2014, 12:46:16 PM
If we have a goal then we should break it down into steps on how to achieve that goal. What are the major "tasks" that need to be accomplished in order to achieve our goal.

A most excellent suggestion!  :)


#1 digital currency is too big of a goal.

I agree that we need to take this in steps (crawl before we walk) but that is the goal.  ;D
Title: Re: GLD to improvise against ASIC
Post by: sizzflair on March 25, 2014, 12:49:31 PM
If we have a goal then we should break it down into steps on how to achieve that goal. What are the major "tasks" that need to be accomplished in order to achieve our goal.

A most excellent suggestion!  :)


#1 digital currency is too big of a goal.

I agree that we need to take this in steps (crawl before we walk) but that is the goal.  ;D

My goal is to become a billionaire.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: GLD to improvise against ASIC
Post by: MicroGuy on March 25, 2014, 12:55:00 PM
My goal is to become a billionaire.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk

Then you might want to get a few million Goldcoins now before it becomes the #1 digital currency.  :)
Title: Re: GLD to improvise against ASIC
Post by: sizzflair on March 25, 2014, 01:17:24 PM
My goal is to become a billionaire.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk

Then you might want to get a few million Goldcoins now before it becomes the #1 digital currency.  :)

Not through coins :)
Title: Re: GLD to improvise against ASIC
Post by: Alpha on March 25, 2014, 01:33:36 PM
My goal is to become a billionaire.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk

Then you might want to get a few million Goldcoins now before it becomes the #1 digital currency.  :)

Not through coins :)

I would be satisfied if GoldCoin made rich!  :)
Title: Re: GLD to improvise against ASIC
Post by: dustint on March 25, 2014, 01:38:05 PM
our one month chart sure looks a lot better than most coins on cryptsy
Title: Re: GLD to improvise against ASIC
Post by: sizzflair on March 25, 2014, 02:45:47 PM
our one month chart sure looks a lot better than most coins on cryptsy

Because most coins were made after the bubble in december...
Title: Re: GLD to improvise against ASIC
Post by: jkeefer on March 25, 2014, 02:50:51 PM
I think the website could use a rebuild.  The models are wearing fashions from a parallel universe.  I am refraining from saying what I really think, because it would be  meant as a joke but might be offensive to some.

All I know is Vertcoin is yielding 3 times the BTC per hash.  Seems the hashrates are halved by the scrypt-n, although could be I just need to optimize more.

I can't think about this at the moment, incredibly busy at work, but I am a bit concerned about GLD.

Good luck.
Title: Re: GLD to improvise against ASIC
Post by: sizzflair on March 25, 2014, 02:58:01 PM
I think the website could use a rebuild.  The models are wearing fashions from a parallel universe.  I am refraining from saying what I really think, because it would be  meant as a joke but might be offensive to some.

All I know is Vertcoin is yielding 3 times the BTC per hash.  Seems the hashrates are halved by the scrypt-n, although could be I just need to optimize more.

I can't think about this at the moment, incredibly busy at work, but I am a bit concerned about GLD.

Good luck.

Message me your offensive thoughts so I can have some laughs (when you get a chance).

We are all concerned... hope I didn't stir up the pot,  but there were absolutely no active discussions lately.
Title: Re: GLD to improvise against ASIC
Post by: MicroGuy on March 25, 2014, 04:18:14 PM
our one month chart sure looks a lot better than most coins on cryptsy

Indeed!

Just to keep everyone in the loop...  :)

A large independent investor (not a dev, staff, or team member) sent me a courtesy message a couple of days ago and said that over the past few weeks that he had sold over 2 million goldcoins on Cryptsy. I can only imagine how this has impacted our market price considering the storm that altcoins have been weathering lately.

Anyway, he still holds a substantial position but said in the message that he is holding the rest. I think the fact that we stayed above a penny in the face of that kind of selling speaks volumes for our strength.

On a more positive note, we've had more new members join the forum during the month of March than the prior few months combined. And I'm getting flooded with emails and messages from people interested in Goldcoin. It looks like the weather is clearing a bit now and that we're about to make a turn towards clearer skies. (:D)

Viscis made a project board on Trello (https://trello.com/b/s0hEvXYH/current-goals) today with various tasks and goals. I'll start a new thread in the Project Development forum today with a link to the board.

Edit: Here's the link: https://www.gldtalk.org/index.php?topic=2423.0
Title: Re: GLD to improvise against ASIC
Post by: sizzflair on March 25, 2014, 06:17:14 PM
our one month chart sure looks a lot better than most coins on cryptsy

Indeed!

Just to keep everyone in the loop...  :)

A large independent investor (not a dev, staff, or team member) sent me a courtesy message a couple of days ago and said that over the past few weeks that he had sold over 2 million goldcoins on Cryptsy. I can only imagine how this has impacted our market price considering the storm that altcoins have been weathering lately.

Anyway, he still holds a substantial position but said in the message that he is holding the rest. I think the fact that we stayed above a penny in the face of that kind of selling speaks volumes for our strength.

On a more positive note, we've had more new members join the forum during the month of March than the prior few months combined. And I'm getting flooded with emails and messages from people interested in Goldcoin. It looks like the weather is clearing a bit now and that we're about to make a turn towards clearer skies. (:D)

Viscis made a project board on Trello (https://trello.com/b/s0hEvXYH/current-goals) today with various tasks and goals. I'll start a new thread in the Project Development forum today with a link to the board.

Edit: Here's the link: https://www.gldtalk.org/index.php?topic=2423.0

Thanks for the update.  Liking the project board.  Can't wait to be a part of the community that will overcome the challenges and make us grow, together.
Title: Re: GLD to improvise against ASIC
Post by: jkeefer on March 25, 2014, 07:19:57 PM
I think the website could use a rebuild.  The models are wearing fashions from a parallel universe.  I am refraining from saying what I really think, because it would be  meant as a joke but might be offensive to some.

All I know is Vertcoin is yielding 3 times the BTC per hash.  Seems the hashrates are halved by the scrypt-n, although could be I just need to optimize more.

I can't think about this at the moment, incredibly busy at work, but I am a bit concerned about GLD.

Good luck.

Message me your offensive thoughts so I can have some laughs (when you get a chance).

We are all concerned... hope I didn't stir up the pot,  but there were absolutely no active discussions lately.

I have to apologize (again), it looks like the concern has already been addressed.  The site has been revamped.  I have been very preoccupied and had not visited the website in a while.

I'm an expert at putting my foot in my mouth.  I will let you know the joke when we have our millionaires party in Vail.  lol

Jamie
Title: Re: GLD to improvise against ASIC
Post by: Alpha on March 26, 2014, 05:26:42 PM
our one month chart sure looks a lot better than most coins on cryptsy

Indeed!

Just to keep everyone in the loop...  :)

A large independent investor (not a dev, staff, or team member) sent me a courtesy message a couple of days ago and said that over the past few weeks that he had sold over 2 million goldcoins on Cryptsy. I can only imagine how this has impacted our market price considering the storm that altcoins have been weathering lately.

Anyway, he still holds a substantial position but said in the message that he is holding the rest. I think the fact that we stayed above a penny in the face of that kind of selling speaks volumes for our strength.

On a more positive note, we've had more new members join the forum during the month of March than the prior few months combined. And I'm getting flooded with emails and messages from people interested in Goldcoin. It looks like the weather is clearing a bit now and that we're about to make a turn towards clearer skies. (:D)

Viscis made a project board on Trello (https://trello.com/b/s0hEvXYH/current-goals) today with various tasks and goals. I'll start a new thread in the Project Development forum today with a link to the board.

Edit: Here's the link: https://www.gldtalk.org/index.php?topic=2423.0


That is very interesting.  I spend a lot of time on the GLD market at Cryptsy, and for some time I have thought that somebody was holding the market down. (But I figured it was to accumulate cheap coins)  I can't wait to see what happens next.  Because if this is true the price could make a nice little jump.  Right now the market depth really favors the buy side.  It would cost very little BTC to see a 50-100% rise in GLD.  This could get a little more exciting if we get a few more buyers!
Title: Re: GLD to improvise against ASIC
Post by: Viscis on March 26, 2014, 05:49:03 PM
This is true. Which is why we should focus on promoting the community and all the work people doing to make GoldCoin a success.

I'm excited!
Title: Re: GLD to improvise against ASIC
Post by: aaelim on April 04, 2014, 10:07:16 AM
I've been away from this site for some time, but it appears gldcoin is actually starting to trend up a bit   is nice to see.
Title: Re: GLD to improvise against ASIC
Post by: Alpha on April 04, 2014, 05:13:59 PM
our one month chart sure looks a lot better than most coins on cryptsy

Indeed!

Just to keep everyone in the loop...  :)

A large independent investor (not a dev, staff, or team member) sent me a courtesy message a couple of days ago and said that over the past few weeks that he had sold over 2 million goldcoins on Cryptsy. I can only imagine how this has impacted our market price considering the storm that altcoins have been weathering lately.

Anyway, he still holds a substantial position but said in the message that he is holding the rest. I think the fact that we stayed above a penny in the face of that kind of selling speaks volumes for our strength.

On a more positive note, we've had more new members join the forum during the month of March than the prior few months combined. And I'm getting flooded with emails and messages from people interested in Goldcoin. It looks like the weather is clearing a bit now and that we're about to make a turn towards clearer skies. (:D)

Viscis made a project board on Trello (https://trello.com/b/s0hEvXYH/current-goals) today with various tasks and goals. I'll start a new thread in the Project Development forum today with a link to the board.

Edit: Here's the link: https://www.gldtalk.org/index.php?topic=2423.0


That is very interesting.  I spend a lot of time on the GLD market at Cryptsy, and for some time I have thought that somebody was holding the market down. (But I figured it was to accumulate cheap coins)  I can't wait to see what happens next.  Because if this is true the price could make a nice little jump.  Right now the market depth really favors the buy side.  It would cost very little BTC to see a 50-100% rise in GLD.  This could get a little more exciting if we get a few more buyers!

I really hate to say I told you so... buy, ya, I told you so!!   ;D
Title: Re: GLD to improvise against ASIC
Post by: Stouse49 on April 06, 2014, 01:26:13 AM
dont quote me on this but i think the new client will be asic resistant.  An ASIC will only find 5 or 6 goldcoin blocks per 10 min. and by that time the block reward will have decreased.  With a multi-threaded client i think timers can be set to ensure blocks keep rolling in on a 2 minute average no matter what the diff. and hashrate is at.  So if a multipool or ASIC jumps on they will receive a lot of orphan blocks and when they are done blocks should still keep rolling in on a 2 minute average.  Many coins are going to fall hard due to difficulty becoming locked really high.  Scrypt coins that survive this should do very well.  Maybe microguy or akumaburn can confirm this.

ASIC resistance has to do with the proof of work hash and how difficult/expensive it is to build such a device for a particular hash.  We have heard about scrypt ASIC miners under development and for preorder.  Eventually, if scrypt ASIC systems catch on, they will put GPU miners out of business just like they did for Bitcoin.  There was a time last year when it was more profitable for me to mine bitcoins with my GPU than for Litecoin.

The new client for GoldCoin and its 51% defense provide certain advantages regardless of what hardware is being used to mine.  If some miner started using some 5MH/s ASICS for Goldcoin, it would be the same as if that miner had build several rigs with 8x 7950 GPU's.  Either way, he would get orphans, etc, as he pushed the 2 minute per block minimum limit.  The difficulty would rise to the correct level for the network hashrate over the course of several hours or a day.  If hundreds of ASICS were put on Goldcoin, then the CPU and GPU miners would be spending more on electricity than what was mined and give up!

If we wanted to GoldCoin to become ASIC resistant to allow the miners to continue using their current GPU hardware without the ASICS pushing the difficulty up (as it happened with bitcoin), then we would need to change the proof of work hash.  One group was suggesting this for Litecoin and the main developers rejected it.  Some have suggested X11.  X11 is a combination of 11 ASIC friendly hashes and would only delay the time when an ASIC would be made for it.  Scrypt-N wounds interesting, because as N increases, the amount of memory required to do the hash increases.  More memory means more expensive ASICS.  To handle these coins, the ASICs would need to have enough memory.  After a certain point in time, they may not have enough memory to continue mining the coin.

Here are a few thoughts concerning Scrypt-N and ASIC resistance:
http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/22604/is-vertcoin-really-asic-resistant
Title: Re: GLD to improvise against ASIC
Post by: bobbyk45248 on April 08, 2014, 09:17:06 PM
Hopefully GoldCoin will do what it has to to prevent ASIC mining. I will end up buying a dedicated mining rig soon to mine GoldCoin, but when the day comes that I am forced to pay for expensive ASIC devices to even have a chance to compete or earn a profit, I will likely give up mining completely.

It is nice to be able to mine and earn profit without being forced to sink a huge investment into mining.

I will call myself a "Recreational Miner" right now, even though I mine 75% of the time on my main computer and 100% of the time on my old computer. I use recreational because I haven't gone out and dropped any large amount of cash into my mining desktop computers. I am able to make some profit still this way.

If ASIC takes over all altcoin, we will then be forced to become "Professional Miners", in which the investment to make any profit will exceed the average person's budget.

Hopefully GoldCoin does everything possible to keep GoldCoin fun and profitable for us "Recreational Miners".

Title: Re: GLD to improvise against ASIC
Post by: bobbyk45248 on April 08, 2014, 09:20:57 PM
our one month chart sure looks a lot better than most coins on cryptsy

Indeed!

Just to keep everyone in the loop...  :)

A large independent investor (not a dev, staff, or team member) sent me a courtesy message a couple of days ago and said that over the past few weeks that he had sold over 2 million goldcoins on Cryptsy. I can only imagine how this has impacted our market price considering the storm that altcoins have been weathering lately.

Anyway, he still holds a substantial position but said in the message that he is holding the rest. I think the fact that we stayed above a penny in the face of that kind of selling speaks volumes for our strength.

On a more positive note, we've had more new members join the forum during the month of March than the prior few months combined. And I'm getting flooded with emails and messages from people interested in Goldcoin. It looks like the weather is clearing a bit now and that we're about to make a turn towards clearer skies. (:D)

Viscis made a project board on Trello (https://trello.com/b/s0hEvXYH/current-goals) today with various tasks and goals. I'll start a new thread in the Project Development forum today with a link to the board.

Edit: Here's the link: https://www.gldtalk.org/index.php?topic=2423.0

Thanks for the update.  Liking the project board.  Can't wait to be a part of the community that will overcome the challenges and make us grow, together.

Someone selling 2 million GoldCoin isn't always a bad thing, especially since people had to buy them in order for him to say he "sold" them.

What hurts GoldCoin the worst is someone selling 2 million GoldCoin at once and them just sitting there up for sale with no buyers for a long time.
Title: Re: GLD to improvise against ASIC
Post by: MicroGuy on April 10, 2014, 09:42:22 AM
I think rather than trying to come up with inventive ways to remain stuck in the stone age using video cards to mine crypto, we should welcome the advancement of ASIC mining technologies as an inevitable step in the evolution of alternative blockchains. Over time, the cost of these devices will decrease making them more affordable.

This new technology will help to increase network hash rate, improve security, add stability, and bring more legitimacy to digital currencies as a whole. What I suspect we'll see more of is "group buys" where several miners agree to pool their money to purchase an ASIC and then divide the coins mined among the group. There will also be leasing options available.

If cryptocurrencies are going to thrive, we need to stop worrying so much about easy mining, and start focusing on actually using these currencies to buy products and services, and only exchange them into fiat when absolutely necessary.